THE OFFICIAL COLLEGE OUTREACH ARM OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
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Post from S Nelson's Blog:
[Issue Discussion Group] - 3rd Party
By AnneK - Jul 25th, 2008 at 9:08 pm EDT
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Not that this is really an issue for Democrats to talk about... but there's enough people throwing it out there these days...

Let's do it.

Who you gonna run on a third party? On what platform? and with what chance of success?

Serious discussion time.

Reader Comments
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:20 pm EDT
Who? Which party? What platform?

You have the floor. People know what you DONT want -

Tell them what you DO want.
Re: Protest vote.
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By Lincoln Park Dem Jul 25th 2008 at 9:23 pm EDT
this I would like to know. WHich third party on '08? I can see it maybe in '16, it takes a lot of time and money to really build a party.
  
Re: Other parties
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By Lincoln Park Dem Jul 25th 2008 at 9:20 pm EDT
wait. Do you think if Clinton comes out as Denver as the nominee that millions of Democrats will belive she stole the nomination and not support her or vote for her? Try the youth vote, the AA vote and MY vote for starters.

No way will Hillary win in November because hs isn't running!
Re: Other parties
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:22 pm EDT
I believe that Hillary would likely face insermountable difficulty in winning back the split Democrats.
Re: Other parties
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By Lincoln Park Dem Jul 25th 2008 at 9:23 pm EDT
agree...my point. She will not be running in the GE this year.
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:28 pm EDT
Yep. I know where you're coming from TB, because we've talked about it before. I just wanted you to have the chance to let other people know.

I have some socialist resources, but I havent even finished reading them all yet.

I know there IS a socialist party, but I dont even know what candidate they're putting up.
Re: Protest vote.
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:30 pm EDT
does it matter? The system is designed to limit our choices to the most inoffensive non-choices possible. Heaven forbid we should actually take a freaking stand and show some guts...
Re: Protest vote.
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By Damien Jul 25th 2008 at 9:58 pm EDT
The Socialist Party USA is running Brian Moore for President. Among other things, his platform includes ending the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, single-payer health insurance, retracting the Patriot Act, establishing a minimum guaranteed living income for all Americans, etc.

You can read all about him and his platform here:
Link

He won't win, obviously. He's struggling to get ballot access in most states. Between Nader and McKinney, the third party vote is severely divided so most 3rd party candidates are going to fair miserably.

The goal of using the 3rd party protest vote is to give a message to the major party candidates that certain votes in certain demographics are not to be taken for granted. For instance, if Obama feels he needs to play to the right of center, as a voter to the political left I can vote 3rd party as a protest. Now, it depends in which state I do this, because obviously I don't want McCain to win. So, if you are in a swing state, you may not be able to use this leverage, but you can narrow Obama's lead in "solid" blue states by volunteering and voting for a third party (such as Brian Moore here in Illinois).
Re: Protest vote.
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:59 pm EDT
THANK YOU DAMIEN
Re: Protest vote.
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 10:00 pm EDT
you speak wisdom, Grasshopper...
Re: Protest vote.
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By Arius Jul 25th 2008 at 10:32 pm EDT
What's his rationale for ending the war in Afghanistan?
Re: Protest vote.
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By Damien Jul 25th 2008 at 10:49 pm EDT
You could write him and ask. I can't tell you why HE thinks we shouldn't be there. I don't believe our presence there serves any purpose, and would favor withdrawing from Afghanistan.
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:31 pm EDT
How is that democratic?
Re: Protest vote.
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:32 pm EDT
not as though we have a democracy anyway....
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:33 pm EDT
I don't think you get to vote in a socialist republic. How is it different that a dictator, as in the case of Cuba?
  
time for revolution
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:27 pm EDT
We SO need to break out the chains of a two party system. Please, Chocolate or Vanilla? (No, that is NOT a veiled racist comment, or even blatant. shut up!) We are a freaking nation of CHOICES! So why the hell do we put up with just Democratic and Republican Parties?

Because we are chained to the system. We need a freaking revolution. Our forefathers did NOT mean for us to be yoked to this system! It is supposed to be a system that encourages change, and yet we are saddled with NO CHANGE ALLOWED.

And our 3rd parties? Please. What a freak party.
Re: time for revolution
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:31 pm EDT
Freaking revolution?

As in "I will see all of you on the barricades"?

Where are the guys from greenpeace?
Re: time for revolution
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:32 pm EDT
bunch of pansies, they are...
Re: time for revolution
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:37 pm EDT
greenpeace guys Link


pansies
Link


.... um, step away from the butterscotch schnapps
Re: time for revolution
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:39 pm EDT
lol. I only wish.

Lovely picture. Calm ensuing... must maintain rage...
  
Parties are the problem!
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:29 pm EDT
I definitely don't agree with those that would vote for McCain to spite Obama...

But i also hate this party stuff. I would like to know what candidate for office REALLY think. so much of the time they just resort to reciting the party platform or, even worse, not acting on what they believe because of the party platform.
  
We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:30 pm EDT
but it's way too far gone for him to run on a third party now.

Nader? .... joke.... no punchline... just kinda trails off....
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By Lincoln Park Dem Jul 25th 2008 at 9:34 pm EDT
well..if Gore was running, he would have my full support and I would drop Obama, maybe as VP...but my money and vote would be Gore.
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:37 pm EDT
As would I and almost all of us here.

But the Goracle let us down.
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:42 pm EDT
Gore is a pansy, too.
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:49 pm EDT
DARK AND SINISTER VILLAIN!!!!!!

HAVE AT THEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

Link
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
Reply
By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:52 pm EDT
please... fight you in those PANSY outfits? I am a jedi, woman! Avoid my light saber!
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:56 pm EDT
Now, you will realize the TRUE NATURE OF THE FORCE! Link
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 10:02 pm EDT
glad we see eye to eye...
Re: We all know everyone would vote for AL GORE
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By Terry Jul 25th 2008 at 11:28 pm EDT
For both of you beware the borg

Link
  
Re: Other parties
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:34 pm EDT
Indeed, Obama does have that same problem.

But I believe Hillary would have it to an even larger extent if there were to be a surprise overturn at the convention.

You HAVE to be watching the reception that Obama is getting everywhere he goes... are you noticing the thousands upon thousands that turn out to see him everytime he shows up somewhere? How would all of them react to a surprise Clinton nomination... ya think? I just think it would be difficult for her to overcome by November.
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:37 pm EDT
I stand corrected. The original system was designed for change. The system NOW is designed to cater to the "middle"... whoever the flip THEY are...
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:42 pm EDT
since when is canada a socialist government? and what european countries are you referring to?
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:45 pm EDT
just because europe nationalized some industries doesn't mean their socialists. what is the saying (its better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt)???
Re: Protest vote.
Reply
By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:46 pm EDT
Hey. You need to do some catching up and reading on socialism. It's a form of democracy that is based more on the common welfare of the citizens.

Canada has "socialized' medical care, "socialized" natural resources... etc. It means for society rather than for private profit.
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:57 pm EDT
that is also what I tried to communicate in my response. my understanding is that many countries have nationalized industries that contribute to the whole. but when i saw socialism, my mind went to Marx. I'm thinking the whole kit and caboodle...
Re: Protest vote.
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By Damien Jul 25th 2008 at 10:00 pm EDT
Socialism is "Marx" as you say, but most socialists do not consider the Leninis-Stalinist interpretation to be true "socialism." Socialism is the expansion of democratic principles into all aspects of society (both political AND economic).
Re: Protest vote.
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By Arius Jul 25th 2008 at 10:37 pm EDT
Socialism is the reduction of democratic principles. Not the expansion. It limits what one can do in business, in the marketplace, and in accumulation of wealth (even legitimately). There is nothing in socialism's manifesto that requires it to be more in favor of personal liberties than democracy already does.
Re: Protest vote.
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By Damien Jul 25th 2008 at 10:47 pm EDT
Not exactly true. Decisions made by private, corporate interests can have large-scale social impact. For instance, the socialised costs of pollution or over exploitation of natural resources do not factor into the costs realized by a capitalist enterprise. Yet, they effect all of human society even though they did not have a say in the manner in which the business was done.

Likewise, the owners of the means of production make decisions that influence all of those in the company's employ with limited to non-existant input from them. Spreading democratic principles into the economic sector empowers unions to have some control of the workplace. It is an extension of democracy into economic sectors.
  
.
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By Moses Jul 25th 2008 at 9:38 pm EDT
Right now a third party is not viable, at least not in terms of winning. As a "protest" it would certainly send a message albeit a small, barely audible one.

Thus, to what end would such a protest result? To have any hope of success, a third party has to be on the ballot in every state. This is not an easy task,nor affordable for most.

So it leaves us with three viable options for a third party candidacy. Right now it's the Libertarian Party, the Green Party, and a massive write in campaign for someone. I am leaving Nader out of the mix in this.

Votes for the Libertarian Barr will probably take votes away from McCain. Votes for the Green candidate (or Nader if you include him) will take them from Obama.

The write in candidate most are referring to is Clinton. Votes for her would also take votes aways from Obama.

A vote for any third party will still ultimately result in either Obama or McCain as President.

Maybe at some point in our future, we might have a viable 3rd party, but right now we don't.
Re: .
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:58 pm EDT
Good comment moses. I agree there IS no viable 3rd party at the moment. Choice is very limited.
  
Re: Other parties
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:57 pm EDT
nope. Not if you feel cheated you wont.
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:54 pm EDT
Yea, I tried to make that point. I think she's just thinking of the old USSR - our enemies in the cold war.
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:55 pm EDT
For the record, you said socialism not social democracy and you didn't specify just economic policies. Socialism can refer to a political philosophy as well.

And in terms of research, I did before I answered you to verify that I have completely lost my mind. This is what I looked at...

Link

According to this reference Canada is a federation.
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:01 pm EDT
LOL... should read "And in terms of research, I did before I answered you to verify that I have NOT completely lost my mind"
Re: Protest vote.
Reply
By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 9:59 pm EDT
For the record, you said socialism not social democracy and you didn't specify just economic policies. Socialism can refer to a political philosophy as well.

And in terms of research, I did before I answered you to verify that I have NOT completely lost my mind. This is what I looked at...

Link

According to this reference Canada is a federation.
Re: Protest vote.
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 10:01 pm EDT
I live in Canada - he's talking about economic policies. It's socialist, I promise.
Re: Protest vote.
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By Damien Jul 25th 2008 at 10:08 pm EDT
Read about Democratic Socialism.

www.dsausa.org

Its generally a good idea to know something about what you're talking about BEFORE you start talking.

See below for DSA's pamphlet "What is Democratic Socialism"
Link
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:10 pm EDT
I generally agree with you... thats why I started with a question before I was attacked!

But I will read your link... thanks
Re: Protest vote.
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By Damien Jul 25th 2008 at 10:18 pm EDT
TB isn't exactly correct. Socialism ("Democratic" socialism) is a theory of political economy. So, both political and economic principles are intertwined in it. Simply put, it calls for the expansion of democratic principles into all aspects of society, both political and economic.
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:00 pm EDT
For the record, you said socialism not social democracy and you didn't specify just economic policies. Socialism can refer to a political philosophy as well.

And in terms of research, I did before I answered you to verify that I have NOT completely lost my mind. This is what I looked at...

Link

According to this reference Canada is a federation.
  
Re: Other parties
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 9:57 pm EDT
by "poorly" you mean way ahead?
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 10:06 pm EDT
last time I checked, both of the current parties began as third parties... (I think. I could be wrong. I know at least one did, though)
  
creature comforts
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 9:58 pm EDT
Okay, riddle me this, Batman.

Why the hell is this 'enlightened' country so freaking backwards? Why, with all our money, do we have so much CRAP in our food? Why do we feed animals better than we feed people? Why do we insist on feeding our infants CRAP? What the hell are breasts for? FOR BREASTFEEDING!!!!

And yet we have freaking hospital policy that hand out formula like it is a necessity. Why? And why are women who advocate FEEDING OUR INFANTS AS GOD INTENDED called NIPPLE NAZIS?

Answer me that! You want a third party? Breastfeeders Unite!
Re: creature comforts
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By AnneK Jul 25th 2008 at 10:03 pm EDT
no on ononono this is a whole post, precious.
  
Re: Other parties
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:04 pm EDT
doesn't that depend on the poll you're looking at???
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:06 pm EDT
why would you try so hard to offend... no live people to insult???

obviously, i don't have a degree in polisci (mine is biology, thank you) and i'm trying to find out more

it's people like you who keep others OUT of the political process and voting for idiots like Bush. Maybe you should have minored in social skills...
Re: Protest vote.
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 10:07 pm EDT
you may have a point... but let TB go. He is 'passionate' about something... :)
  
Re: Other parties
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:17 pm EDT
isn't rasmussen just an average? I think the polls its based on vary
Re: Other parties
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:20 pm EDT
sorry- i was thinking of rcp polls. But rasmussen has him up by 5 and gallup by 6
  
Re: Protest vote.
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By Zoot Jul 25th 2008 at 10:26 pm EDT
when hell froze over.

Seriously, 3rd party candidates just haven't gotten a chance at the presidency.

However, they have managed to do okay in congressional elections... and local elections
  
Re: Parties are the problem!
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By MsTawiah Jul 25th 2008 at 10:27 pm EDT
Following my original logic (kind of distorted- may be hard for you to follow but makes perfect sense to me) they are all the problem. If it weren't for party politics I think we would find that all of them are a lot more conservative than what they let on.